The spam of these two items, heal potions and cryoban grenades, over and over in events, needs to cease. I hold no power to tell the people not to do it, but it has happenned so often that I am posting this as I, as well as other players, seem to find the abuse of these items unfair.

I am not posting this to point at anyone specific, I am posting this directed at the whole playerbase. I have seen the ooc spam soon after an encounter having place to the usage of these two items over and over. It is not fair for any side, so I am posting this here to hear other people's thoughts on this. Hopefuly something can be done that may suit everyone and make things enjoyable.

Preach it Sister. These two items are the bane of Rp everywhere, and of fair fights.

They either need to be Redone, or removed.

I personally greatly enjoy the full-heal pots on my fringer melee fighter. Cryob& need to go, though. Or be crafter only- items.

I feel like cryos wouldn't be missed if they were removed entirely, and it seems that every structured PvP between rebs and imps is determined by who has the most, who throws the first, or who gets the best saves.

As for heal potions, the only times I really see PCs using them are when they're outnumbered or in a particularly nasty situation, and even then I haven't seen anything unreasonable. One or two tops. I don't partake in PvP too often anymore though, since trying to RP with someone at a disadvantage that I would otherwise just attack and kill often screws me over. In other words I wouldn't have the most experience with heal potion abuse anyway.

I have no problem with players having access to extremely powerful abilities such as full healing and cryoban grenades.

However, I think really powerful abilities should require large investments in class levels. Don't take any cleric levels? No full heals for you. Given the vast number of abilities that clerics have lost compared to nwn default, it doesn't make sense to make their few remaining abilities obsolete by the presence of potions people can use to duplicate them, without investing any class levels.

Cryobans should be turned into a special ability of one of the currently underpowered classes (fringer comes to mind), usable something like once per day per ten class levels. This would 'kill two birds with one stone', so that not everyone cryoban spams and make undernourished classes more useful.

heal pots. major disadvantage to the side without them.
Cryos. too many saves and they can be made far too high.

remove heal pots and nerf cryos. i believe DMs have cryos on the list, but haven't gotten around to it

I believe there just simply needs to be an understanding among players that only say...

1-2 Heal Pots per battle. (That means from when you land on the planet, to when you leave the planet) Since that seems to be the main area this is concerned....

CryoBan's need to go and Thermal Detonators need to be a bit more powerful.. Only way they ever have any effect is if you manually target the person, otherwise everyone else just takes 3 damage. ....REal powerful.. Cryo on the other hand you can freeze the entire other team for like 4 rounds just from a well placed CryoBan.

Personally though I think it would be a good idea to give to say a Weapon Specialist class or Tech Specialist.

Giving combat oriented 'spells' and say the only class who gets cryoban, and only at like level 15 so people can just take like two levels into it and get uber Cryo. Thus kicking out Power Building with that.

So.. 1) Nerf/Remove Cryo/Give to a diff class. 2) Maybe combat oriented spells to Tech Specialist as they already suck some nut 3) Thermals beefed 4) Heal pot rule set in place to limit it to 1-2 Heal Pots per Battle.

Something like that, (I know here comes the 'common sense' crap, but apparently people dont have common sense so don't throw that at me)

Hmm.. I agree with most things from teh Gunman, apart from the Weapon specialist part. Don't think they should get em. Bounty hunters, techies, Elite trooper (maybe).

Also, heal should maybe not heal the person fully. Like, maybe, 20d10 or something. A full heal's really annoying when you finally thwatter them down to near death, then boing! They're back. 20d10's not a full heal, but it'll help a little. My opinion.

Here's a thought.. Just take them both out? Solved. What's the point in having something around that nobody's going to use once it's useless? Plus, it'll save you time, and you'll be able to go about your business in a quickly manner

Really is a good suggestion Lich

I actually don't have any issue with the mechanical effects of any of the existing grenades, my thermals seem to do about 300 to many npc's and half to players, I'm guessing because of saving throws - the last pvp I was in maybe 15+ cryo's were spammed and maybe 4 stuck (was one vs one, I was using a soldier/scout and I -think- they were a bounty hunter/soldier/scoundrel - so not epic save classes) so I'm not that concerned about their effects. Personally, I think if any nerfs were applied to grenades, it should be something on line with a weight increase, so dex builds could only reliably carry a couple and str based builds could carry more to make up for the many advantages dex based builds get.

Heal potions are bad. They're mostly used in situations where the zerged person -should- be cut down by overwhelming numbers or the like - personally I think they should just be banned in pvp, same with heal kits - both of these things are kinda necessary unless you want to make partying mandatory for hunting (for non power-built folks) but they don't really have a place in pvp imo.

Also an aoe heal is kinda crap, first it heals less than potions currently, second you need to huddle close and make yourself a prime target for aoe attacks - if there was no potions that might be a fair risk, but when its subpar healing as well as making yourself a nice target it's kinda needless.

Eh, and realistically theres probably not that much of a limitation on grenades, permanent death would be more common, and plenty of other things. Most mechanics systems already throw realism to the window to some degree (Technically most blasters don't hold 99 shots before needing a reload for example) - the goal should be to try and let people keep their toys as much as can be done while making sure not one feature will break balance entirely. At least in my opinion.

One well placed cryoban is tactical, twenty is just irritating and demonstrates a flaw somewhere. And in the situation I listed my char had maxxed demo and a skill of about 33 +13 dex mod give or take - but constantly running and at least non-deficient saves seems to work wonders; I almost don't want to complain about grenades at all because they're only so very effective because the victims generally huddle together and remain stationary.